Last week my post on “Help Save Headstones, Sign the Petition” created a lot of controversy, discussion and feedback in the form of advising others about the petition, signing the petition itself, and also comments that have been left.
I felt the need to do this Follow Up post, as I have had the Metropolitan Cemeteries Board (MCB) contact me wishing to clarify a few things, so I am passing this info on to you.
Firstly no-one likes to see headstones destroyed, and that includes the Metropolitan Cemeteries Board. They are as much about preserving our heritage as we are. The one difference is that they have a cemetery to up-keep, and that costs money. As a way to generate some money, as well as being able to keep the Karrakatta cemetery even ‘open’ (since technically is it full), they have implemented a “renewal program” which had been working well for them since the 1970s.
Shutting the gates and ceasing to offer new burials at Karrakatta was never an option as this site is of great importance for many Western Australians with many viewing Karrakatta as the place in which, ultimately, generations of the same family are able to be reunited.
But if the unthinkable did happen and the gates did close, the MCB still has a responsibility to maintain the gardens, burial areas and facilities for generations of families to follow. As an unmaintained cemetery not only disrespects the memories of those laid to rest but can also become a significant safety hazard as monuments or other structures become dilapidated.
While no-one likes the idea of graves being reused, it is something that the MCB have thought about, and have actually come up with an alternative …
Are bodies dug up or disturbed?
This simple answer to this question is absolutely not! Only the surface environment is altered. New graves are located in the pathways between the old graves. Old headstones are removed so that the new headstones have sufficient room to be placed.
What happens to the old headstones?
Prior to the commencement of renewal there is a 12 month public comment period, and historical research is undertaken with each grave being assessed, and families are invited to make submissions to have their plot retained. An overall report is presented to the Monument Assessment and Advisory Committee (MAAC), who then determines which headstones will be removed and which ones will be relocated within the area. Over the years the challenges of managing the old headstones has been refined, and you will be pleased to hear that NONE are crushed and used for other purposes. Headstones are not disposed of unless they are already significantly damaged (Note: renewal headstones are generally 50+ years of age and some are brittle with weathering). A number of families opt to collect their family headstone, others opt to purchase the new plot next door thus ensuring that family members can be reunified within the same area for generations to come. Another use for old headstones is that they help transform beautiful gardens within the cemetery as headstones placed throughout.
While other cemetery renewal initiatives do exist in varying across Australia, the Perth model has made a concerted effort to ensure that old headstones are retained for family and history within the cemeteries.
War Graves. What happens with them?
The MCB recognises the valiant efforts of our soldiers as well as the need to preserve these memories. The MCB continues to work closely with the Department of Veterans’ Affairs and the Office of Australian War Graves to make sure that war graves are identified. The headstones of Official War Graves are NOT disturbed or modified in any way during the renewal process. These are left in situ.
So while signing the petition is a great idea to show your support against the destruction of headstones, you do also have to look at the other side of the story, and respect that the MCB will not destroy them, or disturb those already buried there. They do rely on the renewal program to not only keep the gates open at these big cemeteries in and around Perth, but also to remain financially viable.
For further information on the renewal process at Karrakatta Cemetery, please visit the Metropolitan Cemeteries Board website.
Gould Genealogy, it would have been a wonderful thing if you had spoken to Saving Graves WA as well
There was and never has been a comment about closing the cemetery made by Saving Graves WA. There has be a comment about it being closed for NEW GRAVES and that is where the difference lies.
If the MCB were as much about preserving history and heritage they would realise the very practice is contradictory at best.
In terms of generating money, we dispute this fact specifically because the areas that were and are being cleared had no money spent on them at all. Now there is the cost of the clearing, the reticulation, the dressing, the new landscaping, the ongoing garden maintenance and not to mention the costs of the water when we are experiencing a huge water crisis both in our dams and underground. when you draw a comparison which is the cheaper?
By their own admission MCB sent headstones off to the crushers, At no time have they PROVEN otherwise. Similarly, headstones that are less than 25 years old are and have been removed. Photo’s on our facebook page and other evidence comfirm the fact.
Moving the headstone to ‘some other part’ of the cemetery does not ease the distress felt by families because of it. The families want to visit the grave and the headstone on the grave gives them some tangible connection to their loved ones as it is part of the grieving process.
Whilst the MCB in the past have removed CWGC headstones and OAWG headstones, following our previous campaign CWGC headstones were replaced (26 of them although not on the grave itself but in ‘the vicinity’), and the removal of OAWG headstones ceased to some extent. OAWG advised us last week that there was an agreement reached in 2008 between them and MCB. I might make mention that prior to this hundreds of OAWG headstones have been removed. However, family headstones of defence personal are removed even if there is mention of service on the headstone.
I personally have several applications with OAWG for replacement of headstones belong to POW’s, amputees and those that are possibly official war dead.
Unlike the MCB, Saving Graves WA does not use throwaway lines, sanitise the issues raised or dismiss people’s concerns by making them feel guilty for having dared question their processes.
There ARE other options available to the MCB rather than removing the headstones but they refuse to consider them hence the petition to the WA Government. This Cemeteries Act affects the whole of WA and can impact on the rest of Australia.
If there are any further questions please feel free to email me personally at fedelmar@hotmail.com.
Sandra Playle
Saving Graves WA
May I take this opportunity to thank Gould Genealogy for taking opportunity to highlight this abhorrent process of the desecration of the last place of rest for many Western Australians?
I will highlight a few erroneous comments that have been made by the MCB in relation this. Their mission statements and vision statements are purely aimed at making money, by the improvement of facilities, therefore attracting more persons to the cemetery and as a flow on effect their aim is more burials, regardless of the historical value that every person interned in the cemetery has made to the state of Western Australia.
Further to this the list of Board Members for those that don’t know are:
- Deputy Chairman Joe O‟Dea Jnr: Managing Director Bowra & O’dea Funeral Directors
Board members:
- Don Whittington – Ex-Councillor of the City of Fremantle
- Dr Ricki Smith – sales, marketing, product development, communications, strategic planning
- Brenda Robbins – barrister at Sir Clifford Grant Chambers
- Tony Evans – resources, property, education and not-for-profit sectors
- Janice Bowra: Murdoch University Senate – Legislation Committee, and the Audit and Risk Management Committee
So what to take from this? In my opinion clearly we have a historian who has clearly lost the empathetic emotions required to be objective, A funeral director who it is in his best interest to open more plots in a popular area, A jobs for the boys, A salesman, A barrister who clearly ensures that they are covered judicially, another salesman, and a Health and Safety professional who through evidence already presented appears not to practice what she preaches.
I am not insinuating any fraudulent behaviour here but it stands out that the State government has given the keys to the liquor cabinet to a bunch of over amorous drinkers who are clearly after the dollar irrelevant of what social impact it may have.
As a direct descendant of a number of “early” settlers to the Swan River colony, I further find this practice of subjectively deciding who holds cultural or historical significance by a group of people as mentioned above clearly with the outlook to make money. The current MCB of WA is over weighted with bureaucrats and people with a direct vested interest in the “renewal process” or have been friendly to their plight in the past. Not one of these bureaucrats are focused purely on historical or personal value of the interned.
The MCB outline in their releases that they are concerned that of the constant upkeep of degrading grave stones and grave areas are costs which they are not able to continue to under take within their budgetary abilities. I emphatically suggest that this statement is erroneous. If you wish to research further or visit the areas which are marked for desecration, the realisation will be obvious that little to no expense is not outlaid to these areas, nor has it been dine in the previous years to preserve these areas.
I have just been reviewing the J MCB Annual Report for 2011-12 a disturbing passages from MCB Chair Dr Leonie Liverus “As a result of the changes to the WA Cemeteries Act in 1986, a number of Grants of Rights of Burial were scheduled to expire on 2 July 2012. Although the Board had initiated a sound communications strategy around these expiries, just prior to 2 July 2012, and during the reporting period, incorrect information was provided to the media, causing significant unnecessary community confusion. Board staff responded to an extraordinary number of enquiries and were able to allay many of the concerns expressed by families. Whilst a number of families have opted to renew their Grants for peace of mind, many have, with the passage of time, not felt the need to renew.” I challenge Dr Liverus to further explain what information was incorrect? At the time of publishing this comment there has been no evidence other than the words of a group of people with ulterior motives and all evidence is subjective to say the least.
May I ask that rather than take the sanitised outline by a bureaucratic organisation not focused on the preservation of the culture and heritage of Western Australia that people actually investigate this for themselves and make their own decisions regarding the history that is attached to every grave in both Karrakatta and ultimately Fremantle as well.
There are numerous alternatives to removing headstones and wasting 100′s of thousands of dollars on grass reticulation and damaging graves of historical value (again photographic evidence available). Options include but are not limited to closing the Cemetery to “new burials , this has been previously argued against by Funeral Directors (surprise surprise), allowing for familial internment, using the areas between graves leaving the current grave either side intact to name but a few.
Finally I would implore Gould Genealogy to contact Saving Graves WA, Sandra Playle or myself if you have further questions or require further clarification on the points outlines above.
Yours in history, Craig Hyde craih91@bigpond.com
What is it that Joe O’Dea(jnr), Don Whittington, Dr Ricki Smith, Brenda Robbins, Tony Evans and Janice Bowra, of the Western Australian Cemeteries Board, don’t understand about “sanctity, desecration & sacrilege?” …
http://caiteile.com/2013/03/05/your-tombstone-stands-among-the-rest/
Reading the MCB website about the renewal program I happened across these passages…….
“Historical research is undertaken and each grave is assessed.”
“The MCB continues to work closely with the Department of Veterans’ Affairs and the Office of Australian War Graves to make sure that war graves are identified. The headstones of Official War Graves are NOT disturbed or modified in any way during the renewal process. These are left in situ.”
……and yet 26 official Commonwealth War Graves headstones WERE removed.
What makes the MCB comments even more of a mockery is the fact that when the removal of these headstones was brought to their attention by members of Saving Graves WA, (and the MCB reluctantly forced to replace them), they were unable to return them to exactly the same spot because no record had been kept.
So much for the MCB claims of careful research and assessment.
This was first brought to my attention by Sandra Playle, who has done an incredible job in bringing this wanton destruction to the attention of all. Subsequently, Sandra, along with Craig Hyde and many others, are expressing their/our disgust through Saving Graves WA…
I cannot believe the hypocrisy of MCB… they can write whatever they want on their website, but the facts will out… they have gone ahead without any compassion, empathy, understanding or probably worst of all, not a modicum of respect for the departed or their families.
You can see just a little of the photographic evidence on my blog at
http://thatmomentintime-crissouli.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/heartbreak-in-western-australia.html
How would the members of MCB treat the graves of their loved ones… not good enough, folks.
Shame on you.
Happy to put my name on this petition
What is the purpose of a cemetery? What is the purpose of a headstone?
A cemetery is place where people know their loved-ones rest. Even though they know that Grandma is dead, she is not erased from this earth – something tangible remains. It is somewhere family can go and somehow be close to that person.
The actual plot is significant. The headstone lets us know where Grandma lies. Not somewhere in this vicinity, but actually HERE.
We have a funeral and hope that our loved one Rests In Peace.
A cemetery is supposed to be a place where the dead are treated with dignity. Many of us who are genealogists have experienced the shock to find that one or more of our ancestors are buried in a pauper’s grave, perhaps along with more than one stranger. Imagine how generations in the future will feel knowing that their ancestors were not paupers but none-the-less their resting spot was desecrated and lost, due to local government gone mad.
The removal of headstones and the ‘regeneration’ of cemeteries takes away all dignity for the dead, and rips away our ability to have a connection with our relatives, no matter how many generations distant they may be.
Many families during and after the First and Second World Wars experienced the heartache of not having their sons and daughters laid to rest where they could visit and feel a connection and grieve. Various governments recognised this, hence the Commonwealth War Graves Commission sending out photos of the headstone along with a booklet “Where Australians Rest”.
The fact that some of us have great uncles or grandfathers whose resting spot near some battlefield is unknown still matters. I have a friend who is researching, certain that the body of an unknown Lieutenant in the NZ Rifle Brigade, killed on 12 October 1917, is that of his great uncle. Nearly 100 years on, and where exactly family lies is of great importance. Otherwise would we not all be content to merely visit a wall listing the names of the dead, rather than embark upon a pilgrimage off to a cemetery on the other side of the world?
Cemeteries matter. Headstones matter.
Thanks Max and Mary for your arousal on this issue. What a bunch of greedy mean spirited rotten grubs, All that vastness of australia for more burials but no ,recycling graves is lucrative for some grot’s coffers but for mine IT’S NOT ON. It is disrespectful to the deceased ,their memory and their kindred.
Some of the content in the above article is clearly wrong.
FOr example the statement “Headstones are not disposed of unless they are already significantly damaged ” is NOT correct. It clearly says on MCBs website …that headstones are disposed of ….after 12 months storage …..